Nyhetsflöde

Thanks for choosing an interesting and useful article for further discussion!

I agree with you on the balance of the method section in reference to quantitative and qualitative approach and the need for stringency in regard to qualitative data. Both findings linked identity presence to follow-up participation and the reinforcement of dialogic interaction online.  Yes, the study is limited to typed discussion as many other studies, but nevertheless, it is within this media or environment that research hopefully will provide further questions for TEL in practice.

That identity presence in online educational space is claimed to have been explored to a limited level, I do not find to be surprising. I think that gender has been the main line of interest, and I hope that identity presence will gain interest as a way of bringing about further research interest in individualization in higher education.  I think that the experience that you describe: ”I have often experienced a lack of personality within TEL-spaces, making me feel as if I was all alone within the space” is a very important reflection. Firstly it gives us real-life proof of what this study has captured, explaining the importance of creating a social learning environment, which  “should be constructed and evaluated as a key interface dimension in the online learning environment to create a supportive climate for identity presence” (366). If you feel all alone out there, something is definitely missing. Secondly, bringing your personal experience into this discussion also gives it a wider dimension: “online discussions with identity presence are associated with more follow-up participation in discussions” (366).

The first question I have is in regard to discourse analysis, as in this study, i.e. the coding framework for online interactions.  The coding involved the categories of social interaction, knowledge sharing and construction, management. I found this interesting, but at the same time, find that the coding must at times be difficult, seeing a fine line in judging when “sharing personal life experiences that do not contribute to knowledge sharing or construction” (356) or when they do. Perhaps some of you have experience of this?

Secondly, I see many interesting research questions in identity presence in TEL spaces. However, one question concerns the relationship between “knowledge-relevant interaction, response-elicitation, and followership in on-line discussions” (365) and online course continuation. It seems that creating a social learning environment which supports identity presence must be a key issue in helping students not only start, but complete online courses.

Hi Hanna,

I have read your post and I agree with you that identity issues should be made more central to the discussion about learning in online environments. That is what I like about virtual worlds ;-) (for example), that they make you/us think about identity which is something we often perhaps take for granted even in the classroom and face-to-face learning. Identity is something that is often discussed in language learning because learning another language is a very radical process and is similar to changing your identity and becoming something new or different. Language learning is a very emotional experience and perhaps if we could capture this dimension in other fields of learning we would have a more holistic understanding of what is actually going on in learning (and teaching).

However, I haven't read the article yet but will get back to you when I have ;-)

Luisa

Thank you Hanna for sharing this, it was very interesting for me in terms of methodology for my project...I have some starting points to explore...

I personally feel that the answer to the identity issue is given at the last paragraph where communities (Wenger) are mentioned. It is the basic difference with networks (that I struggle with). There are papers that have argued that communities of practice are essential to identity development not only within students but also for professional learning.

One of the reason why I did not stick with the MOOC was also the lack of identity...

@ Luisa > Very interesting this about how learning another language makes us into someone different! I never thought of that, but when you say it – it is so true! How interesting it would be to explore this. But, even if it is probably more pronounced in language learning, wouldn’t “I am bilingual” be comparable to “I am able to build a website”. A big difference, as I see it, is that I couldn’t say “I am a web developer” because that is taken as a professional title. However, whenever we learn to master something, I believe it changes our identity profoundly – be it language or web development.

@ Marcia > I also believe identity presence could help getting a better completion rate.

Hi Hanna,
your questions are intriguing ones.. so here we go...

Q.
 Hence, I find it surprising that identity in online educational space is claimed in the paper to have been explored to a limited level.

A.
I think you hit the head on the nail as to identity - the user- and where research considers him/her useful as to identity. Much goes into how objects are used. How to make the object most useful for the target group. Yet what research shows cause & effect of the object and if the object "changes identity"? Definitely something to consider.

Q.
Not surprisingly, the second question I will prompt you to explore is: What are your ideas and experiences regarding identity presence in TEL spaces?

A.
I have a tendency to link identity with the clues I receive visually. So here is a little basis to start with. I do believe that there is a divide. Whether Politically Correct or not, I believe it is relevant... sighted people envision items before they see the actual object They can "see" a result (confirmation of what they envisioned) when they see it "in person".

On the other hand visually impaired people can envision the same, yet will never have visual confirmation if what the visualize is accurate. Here, without a visual aspect to lend clues to, it becomes a bit steril because there is no body/facial language to pick up tips on. So does this make visually impaired people "better" at non-face-2-face learning in TEL environments? 

Basically I'm in the same corner as Luisa is. I think that virtual worlds will help, and when F2F programs such as Adobe Connect are viable world wide. Yet both have + & - to consider.

I do enjoy 2nd life as it does give body & facial movement as an option. You can also be your own stylish self... or a bit odd. Anything from a person to a cat or a crazy floating meatball with spaghetti hanging off "you". Here identity pushes the boundary and adds another dimension especially for those just coming into their identity or changing it.

Thanks! ~Teri

Thanks for raising this topic Hanna. Well After reading this article, it made me think if identity ever played a significant role in my learning experience. Of course yes: it was all contingent to motivating factors, discipline to achieve my set goal and supervision at hand. With motivating factors I mean motivating identity presence which implies that my learning process came as a package along with other activities and goals. I used to admire positive teachers and friendly fellow students as well as creative jocks and motivational speakers... with such I did acquire much. I hate boring friends and teachers no matter the values they represent. With Discipline I mean when one must use discipline to avoid obstacles. This is normally the case when one must give an account for example preparing to write exams where identity must be merged with performance, here discipline necessitates. Finally by supervision, the fact that I knew that someone was following me or evaluating me, I had no choice but to show a "positive me". I do believe the same applies to many.

In a similar perspective I find that when the above are present in online learning process, students' potentials to learn based on identity presence are considerably more enhanced than if they were absent especially at lower stages of education but could also be the case at some higher levels as well. 

Hi Hanna again, I think my first post answered your second question without having read the article ;-) so now I have actually read the article I will try to answer your first question...Why is learner identity so neglected in TEL literature?

I do not know, actually, and the answer is not in the article. I can say from my experience in language education that it has traditionally been broken down into smaller parts: individual learning styles and learner strategies, learner beliefs and attitudes, learner L1 (first language) vs learner L2 (second language), learner motivation and learner autonomy, language and culture. However, it is certainly a current educational issue in my field (i.e. Norton, 2000, Dörnyei 2009, Breen 2001, Kramsch 2006 to name but a few).

I would, however, go further and make a bold statement and suggest that the reason that identity is neglected in online education in general is that it is neglected in face-to-face education in the first place. The problem I find with so much online education is that is often is just a transposition into an electronic tool of traditional understandings of teaching and learning. So my question back to you is: when will we start using new media and communication platforms to start transforming our understanding of learning?

I hope this helps...

@ Eleni: Wenger is definitely interesting. However, isn’t the focus on identity in communities of practice more on the identity of the community as a whole? This is also interesting as individual and community identity probably are closely connected.

@ Teri: Thanks for the examples of how Second Life offers ways that one can express one’s identity.

@ : Thnak you for raising the connection between motivation and identity of those around us, I think it is a big part of why identity presence is important. Marcia was on the same thought: “It seems that creating a social learning environment which supports identity presence must be a key issue in helping students not only start, but complete online courses.”

@Luisa: Well, thanks for that “little” question. Do you think I get the Nobel Prize if I come up with the answer? ;) However, I agree that it is a fundamental problem that F2F education is translated into digital space. New ways deserves new ways of thinking, right? On the other hand, I think that making identity explicit is more important (important in other ways) in digital space, because there are no self-evident cues regarding personality, attitudes and actions. To try to explain how I mean: in digital space everything has to be intended. Even if body language is possible in Second life, the learner herself has to actively choose (right?) to gaze far into nowhere if she is not (and wishes to express it) interested in the conversation. In F2F on the contrary this might happened completely unintended, the learner might even struggle to look interested and still be given away by her body language. So, what I would wish for would be ways of creating a feeling of each-other being present, with their unique personality/identity explicitly present. I will work on how...

Hello Hanna, I agree that the work of CoPs focuses on collective identity. What I meant was that I need a community environment, some shared values and learning goals, a feeling of comradeship, a sort of comfort zone so that I individually proactively share and collaborate.

An interesting article! One thing that I was thinking about but could not find in the paper was If the participants knew each other before the course, have met IRL or if this was the first time they were together. I think that if we in this course haven’t had the physical meeting in Stockholm and got to know one another the discussion here would be very different.

My research area is as I said when we met regarding online coaching. We have run the project for two years now and one of the most interesting things is that the student can choose their own identity in Windows Live Messenger (eg mailadress, username and profile picture) and it’s quite interesting to see students build an identity and then chat with the coaches. I have seen fore example students telling coaches that they are younger than they really are when asking for help in math. When planning data collection from transcripts and preforming research on them remember to check it up with university lawyars and/or the Data Inspection Board to make sure that everything is alright legally.

Thanks to all of you, and especially to Eleni and Hanna, for moderating such interesting and engaging dicussions! :) We are currently the top contributors in KTH social (although maybe there is not that much competition…).

I found the discussion on identity very interesting. I think it is one of those concepts that is very complex and has different meaning to different people, which makes it difficult to reach well-agreed results. As mentioned, identity can also be research on different levels (e.g. the identity of individuals, the identity of communities etc.)

I think a lot of research is implicitly addressing identity. Wenger and many other proponents of social learning theories would say that identity and belonging is part of everything we do. There is, for example, a lot of research on Decision support systems, looking at the effect of anonymity (which could be regarded as one aspect of identity) but they seem to have refrained from using the term identity per se. Also, many theories on learning emphasize that who you are, which experiences you have etc., affect what and how you learn. Again, these theories often do not use the term identity explicitly.

I would like to recommend one book chapter and a journal paper that I have found very useful in understanding online identity. None of them look at identity in online learning settings, but I still find them useful. The first one is old but still relevant. Donath convincingly showed that identity has both explicit and implicit dimensions. For example, you can try to be anonymous, but you will still reveal parts of your identity by e.g. the way you write. We can also play with our identities depending on how we would like to be perceived (just as we do in "real life" but of course in different ways).

Donath, J. (1999). Identity and deception in the virtual community. In M. Smith & P. Kollock (Eds.), Communities in Cyberspace (pp. 29-29). London, England: Routledge.

The following paper looks at the importance of identity (and bonding) in order to develop successful online communities. Basically, the authors say that a a successful community needs to develop a shared identity and/or bonding among participants. In our course, I would say that we do a bit of both. Common identity: We share the interest in taking this course and making something useful out of it. We strive towards a joint purpose, i.e. getting a better understanding of current research in TEL. Common bond: We purposefully met for two days in order to get to know each other, where you got to know the other participants (some better than others, of course) which in turn contributes towards a more active course community.

Ren, Y., Kraut, R., & Kiesler, S. (2007). Applying Common Identity and Bond Theory to Design of Online Communities. Organization Studies, 28(3), 377-408.

I have to say, (as a lot of you already has given a voiced to) ; I do find your thought very interesting and I am happy to be able to take part of this online-community (with the hope (@Stefan) that I am not treated different as we didn’t meet F2F in Sthlm ;) .  Interesting thou, about the students presenting them self’s as younger..  As reflecting over this I recently heard an interview with a man talking about location tagging, and how he made a conscious chose about were he tagged him self (which often didn’t reflect the reality).. All about image and which kind of profile we want others to see..   But on the other hand… when we talk about identity and body language in Second Life as you mentioned Hanna, it has to be chosen and to be right. As to this, what is the different when we use applications to spell-check our posts before posting in KTH Social? =) Cause obviously we prefer the idée of being good writers (/researchers ;)      (I might just suffer of Yet-leg.. )    

I find your thoughts, @Teri, interesting about visually impaired people.. I would thou say… that the possibility to express your self in the written language will have a greater effect. At least if non-F2F meetings is the same as instant messaging or forum discussions..  (But an interesting experience you can play with is making Skype calls without the camera on.. and you will soon start to realize how hard you listen for sound, just to locate and place your friend.. the information that is visual for others/or normally..)  I would also say that the tenseness to use smiley’s is a reflection of our need to express and fulfill our statement. (Another reflection, as just returning from China, is that different culture has different body language..   So our communication success online.. will have to take a lot of aspects in considerations)

It makes me sad to think of the online education as just a transposition from face to face/classroom teaching…   So to your question Luisa, as I can see there are already teachers out there trying to use new media (what ever the def. of new media might be… (I am a bit skeptic to that term..))  too support learning as well as trying to transform the mindset and understanding for learning. I am highly aware of that this might not be the most common ones.. but still, there are some people out there..

@ Hanna, I just have to say that I strongly agree with you about that a key issue for the social learning environments is to support identity presence. And that the feeling of being alone within the space, is not preferable from a social-cultural-learning perspective.

@Stefan, The articles sounds interesting, and I will try to take part of the material as soon as possible.

Hi everyone,

Commenting on the post after 45 days is soooo diffcult and probably no oen will read it but I really fidn the paper and teh discussion very amuzing.

I will play the devil's advocate here and say the opposite of all what everyone else said, for me to particiapte in an online learning community, it would be fun to hide my real identity and to meet people who hide their own identities, why? because it will promote fantasy... Hollywood sells ONLY fantasy and everyone loves it, no one really likes the reality, and everyone is looking for a fantasy. I would have discussed another highly profitable industry like "pornograohy" but maybe this is not the place for it. What I mean is that maybe when students would get rid of their worries of "how do other see me" and "how am I percieved?" and do they think I am too old or too fat? or maybe too dumb ....etc, then the students will focus more on the content of the learning program rather than on the outside factors that affect the learning process. No matter what culture you come from, students end up evaluating each other either by looks or by intelligence or by ethics or in some cultures by humilty or its opposite, aggression. Students are always aware of teh fact that they are being evaluated. But what if the student can be whoever he/she wants to be? the smartest in class or the thinnest ...... or the prettiest ...... or wearing designer clothes all teh time? driving a porsche? .....etc, wouldn't that have a positive effect on their "self image" and then wouldnt that reflect positively on their ability to learn?

We have all read about the use of "Second Life" in education, so why do studenst liek it? not because it gives them a chance to be who they really are....but actually because they can be who they "WANT" to be other than who they really are. Maybe it is a crazy thought, but don't we all as teachers tell our students "pretend that you are the president of the united states and you must write a speech to the Wall Street protesters now" to teach them how to write a good speech in croporate communication subjects? why do we do that? because this fantasy will motivate them and also boost their self confidence.

Mayeb I strayed away from the paper, but since everyone is saying is that we must help students express their identities, I wanted to represent a different view point of "why should we do that?"

Interesting post Sandra! Research conducted in online dating sites confirms what you claim, people rarely state their true "identity"...